bmmpxf: 1) what's up
***aaime is doing the 1.7.5 release and is setting up for hacking (very) partial 3d support in gt2 and gs
***groldan is on arcsde related paid work for the whole week
***jdeolive is working on resource pub stuff and getting ready to close to 2.0 related bugs
***bmmpxf is going through old doc tasks, and doing misc doc curation things
mcrmcr: mcrmcr resumes work on geoxacml
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jdeolive: next topic?
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jdeolive: 2) release update
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aaime: I'm finishing both the gt2 and gs releases
aaime: gs artifacts are mostly fully uploaded
aaime: but I miss someone to make the osx installer
aaime: if you can give a whirl at the artifacts it would be great
aaime: I'm still fighting with gt2
aaime: the souce build won't build with an empty repo because some people did not do what I asked last month
bmmpxf: aaime: Don't forget that there is a new Windows installer that should be posted alone side the old for testing.
aaime: this is completely new to me
***aaime dies at the thought of uploading another 40MB
aaime: did we have two installers in the previous releases?
aaime: bmmpxf, jdeolive?
bmmpxf: the winv2 was uploaded last month, after the 1.7.4 release. We discussed on the ML to have both up there so people could test, since it had Vista probs.
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aaime: are there instructions on how to build it?
jdeolive: bmmpxf: do you want to handle that?
jdeolive: i believe you did last time no?
***aaime would like that
bmmpxf: I will handle it. Eek, there are no instructions, although it is notionally identical to the old windows installer.
bmmpxf: I can build both v1 and v2 if you'd like.
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aaime: already built v1 and uploaded it
bmmpxf: And I can call the new one ng if everyone one would like.
aaime: someone you should also answer the user dilemma "why would I want to download this one"
aaime: (like with oracle ng)
bmmpxf: thanks for that, btw
bmmpxf: if you have anyt roubles with the PDF doc ouptu too, let me know.
aaime: that's not part of the standard release guide either...
aaime: (I was wondering about it)
bmmpxf: ah crud
bmmpxf: okay, filing a JIRA for me now
aaime: the release guide instructs only to build the html modules
aaime: sorry, the html output
bmmpxf: sorry, aaime
aaime: should we add the pdf version too?
bmmpxf: oh wait
bmmpxf: only for download, not for live posting on docs
aaime: right, for downloads
mcrmcr: pdf would not be bad, had read some mails from my university about pdf documentation for geoserver/geotools
bmmpxf: we started pdf output as of 1.7.4
aaime: for the record, the pdf generation fails on my machine
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aaime: it complains about a missing font
bmmpxf: let's talk after the meetings
bmmpxf: I'll try it too.
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aaime: Ok. I guess that is it?
jdeolive: 3) road map
sigq: Title: Roadmap - GeoServer (at geoserver.org)
jdeolive: soo... i guess first thing is date for beta2?
jdeolive: now it is set to the 22nd?
aaime: Who's going to make the release?
bmmpxf: Q about 2.0. Is the UI stable enough to start creating screenshots about it?
bmmpxf: or is it still subject to lots of change?
aaime: I will be in Bolsena for the european OSGEO sprint, so my internet connectivity might not be good
jdeolive: aaime: i will also be in australia at the complex features workshop
jdeolive: so will groldan
jdeolive: i suggest we push it back unless anyone else steps up
aaime: ok, so for that date we seem short of releasers
jdeolive: letting sit a little longer allows to fix more issues anyhow
aaime: either that, or make it mid of the week before
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jdeolive: we could... what are preferences of the people here?
jdeolive: actually before we answer that
sophiap: what would not done if pushed to the week before?
jdeolive: i have another related question
jdeolive: sophiap: probably just fewer lower priority bugs fixed
jdeolive: related question is
jdeolive: do we need a beta3?
aaime: hmmm... probably not? It all depends on the answer to bmmpxf question
aaime: how many other big UI changes are planned?
aaime: or any other big change in general, for that matter
jdeolive: good question
jdeolive: there is stuff i want to make nicer... but practicality tells me it is probably good enough now since it is such a huge step forward from the 1.7.x UI
bmmpxf: I feel like I want the UI to be at 96% stable before I start thinking about 2.0 docs. Program stability is another matter.
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jdeolive: aaime, groldan: what are your thoughts?
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aaime: hmmm... not sure
aaime: I think the UI is good enough
aaime: and now we're at liberty to improve it more, and more easily
aaime: (ok, bmmpxf won't like that very much )
groldan: not sure neither, there might be a couple things to review in order to tell its ok to start screenshotting the ui
jdeolive: i think we can continue to incrementally improve it
aaime: and incrementally improve the screenshots as well
groldan: the first I can think of is jdeolive wanted the order of table columns to be inverted
groldan: but all in all, it's looking quite solid
groldan: so I think I agree with aiime, it's also something that can be incermentally improved
aaime: anything else?
aaime: 1.7.6 wise... it's quite doubtful there will be such a release, right?
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bmmpxf: Well, we didn't plan a 1.6.5, but that came out why? (I forget)
aaime: I don't remember exactly
aaime: jdeolive_, we were talking about 1.7.6
aaime: and the fact that it's not really planned
jdeolive_: aaime: i think 1.7.6 is probably likely, especially if more paid work comes in
aaime: right, but it is on the hook for sponsored work that includes making the release in the lot
bmmpxf: actually, I think paid work was what created 1.6.5
aaime: the thing is, it's not like we'll do it "no matter what"
jdeolive_: but I still think we can plan it accordingly with the community
jdeolive_: and hence throw it on the road map... maybe just not attachning a release date just yet
aaime: unless someone pops up and actually wants to do it, that is
sophiap: what would be the benefit of 1.7.6?
aaime: the same as 1.7.5
jdeolive_: sophiap: well 1.7.x is the only branch suitable to stable paid work at the moment
aaime: and other previous releases I guess
jdeolive_: and given there are a number of people doing stable work right now... it is probably the only option for that imo
aaime: trunk is nowhere near stable enough
sophiap: how stable does the trunk have to be to release 2.0?
aaime: if experience teaches something, stable, but not that much
jdeolive_: i guess no blockers in jira
aaime: we usually release when we run out of issues we can find on our own and from the users that actually do test RC
aaime: but usually x.y.1 and x.y.2 are still a bit shaky
jdeolive_: agreed, we usually don't get stable for a couple of release cycles
aaime: (as in, really stable, really solid)
aaime: it's not like we release stuff we don't believe in, it's just when the user community actually hits the release
sophiap: so users don't migrate until after .1 or .3 releases?
aaime: (usually, only early birds use RC)
aaime: most people start really testing gs with x.y.0 and that results in new issues we did not know popping up
aaime: and for cautious people, well, we've seen people upgrading from 1.6.x straight to 1.7.4
bmmpxf: sophiap: On the mailing list there seems to be a solid continuum of people, from the crazies using nightlies to those who wait until .3 .
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aaime: and well.. geoserver has such a huge testing surface that it needs time for the user community to hit it all
aaime: we have a ton of tests, but not nearly as big as what the user community testing can actually do
aaime: if you think about just the CITE tests I run today, almost 1000 tests did hit GeoServer
aaime: and we pass every single one of them every time
aaime: plus we have hundreds of tests in gs and thousands in gt2
aaime: yet, the real world is a different beast
jdeolive_: the biggest hole in our testing is with data directories
jdeolive_: starting up with old data dirs, various aspects of peoples dd's in the wild, etc...
jdeolive_: it is too bad funky_c's call for people to supply their dd's did not get more uptake
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bmmpxf: yeah, that is a drag
aaime: I guess the issue is that most people refer to local resources that cannot be shared
aaime: databases, network diskss
aaime: it's the usual thing in all OS I guess, we do our best to deliver, but in the end we don't have a QA department
aaime: and GS usually sees a lot of changes, big ones, every time we release a x.y.0 release
jdeolive_: on a related note one thing i want to do for this years GeoServer past present future talk is graph our major releases against new features + bug fixes against those of other projects, i think it would be an interesting comparison
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aaime: yeah, I guess compared to other projects
aaime: our number of new features and bug fixes goes out of the roof
bmmpxf: yeah, no kidding
bmmpxf: We're like the anti-QuarkXPress
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aaime: ha ha
aaime: let's move to the next topic?
aaime: jdeolive, anything else for the road map?
jdeolive_: i don't think we came to a consensus on if we need a beta3, and when we should do beta2
aaime: imho we don't need a beta3, as for beta2, I'm open to doing the release end of the week before the 22nd
groldan: I would personally like to postpone beta2 for a wheek, and go for rc1 after that
groldan: week, I mean
jdeolive_: ok. i am for RC after beta2 as well, as for when beta2
groldan: rationale being there's a couple things I'd like to get fixed for beta2 that I don't think I will really have time for before the australia workshop
jdeolive_: if someone wants to do it that week (early) i am ok with that
aaime: jdeolive_, which week?
aaime: date please
groldan: we should make first sure there's no features missing after beta2
jdeolive_: the week before the 22nd
groldan: it'd be nice to run for rc1 as bugfixing only
aaime: early in the week before the 22nd? .... too early?
groldan: did anybody make a run through that feature-parity bunch of issues?
aaime: groldan, nope
jdeolive_: sorry, end of week before the 22nd, what you said
groldan: how close are we to feature parity?
aaime: no idea
aaime: I think we're pretty close, thougth we lack many of the demos
sigq: Title: GEOS-2134 Bring the new UI to feature parity with the old UI - jira.codehaus.org (at jira.codehaus.org)
groldan: says we're there?
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aaime: I guess it does not take into account the demos
aaime: rss, wfs-t
aaime: and so on
groldan: but I still doubt it
aaime: I know bmmpxf also wanted to change the demo data?
jdeolive: i sort of think those should be seperate downloads imo... but that is aside
groldan: layer group editor?
aaime: don't know
aaime: I think I made some fixes there, but I don't remember what its status is
aaime: Oh, one thing I remember that is missing: it's not possible to choose a different style for a layer in the group
sigq: Title: GEOS-2705 Wicket UI styling and usability improvements - jira.codehaus.org (at jira.codehaus.org)
aaime: right.. there's quite a bit of stuff there... for some there are some hard problems to be solved
groldan: how much of that do we need for a beta2
aaime: pretty much everything if we want a pure bug fix RC
groldan: if there's something that's a feature rather than a cosmetic issue that'd be priority
aaime: if you look at some issues they ask for new panels in the UI
aaime: with that in mind, and given some of us are working on unrelated stuff
jdeolive: imo things under that issue can be done in future releases
aaime: all of them?
jdeolive: maybe not all... not sure have to look through again
aaime: like, you seemed to be pretty interested in having the preview in the layer editor
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jdeolive: but that issue was supposed to be more or less container for all not crucial stuff
jdeolive: yeah... but again, i would not call it a blocker for 2.0
aaime: ok, so there is a need to re-prioritize issues for beta2
aaime: I'm a bit worried about it thought
jdeolive: that is one of my tasks for this week
aaime: rationale: many of us are on paid work this week, unrelated to beta2
aaime: and the week of the 22 we are away
aaime: so that leaves only one week for making the changes for beta2
aaime: and moving it to the 29 would not change things a bit
jdeolive: yeah... so should we push for the week after the 22nd?
aaime: right, but at the end of that week
aaime: because if we shoot for the beginning the time to do fixes is still just one week
aaime: unless I spend all of the Bolsena sprint working on the wicket UI (deja vu)
jdeolive: haha, ok... well i am open to pushing back
jdeolive: and it sounds like groldan is as well
groldan: that sounds good to me
aaime: jdeolive, do you have time to go through the beta2 issues and try to re-prioritize them
groldan: pity, cause I'd like it sooner, but more close to reality imho
jdeolive: aaime: yup, it is on my task list for this week
aaime: this way we can have an idea of what should actually be done
jdeolive: will try to get to it today
aaime: I guess we can talk about the effective date after we have that
aaime: and for the record, I'm not against working on beta2 during the Bolsena sprint
jdeolive: sounds good
groldan: it's 15 mins past meeting time, I'm going back to hack mode, ping me if needed
aaime: I just want to keep some time to exploit networking opportunities that might arise there
aaime: (with geonetwork or with other projects)
jdeolive: aaime: yeah. i think you should focus on that, it would be a pity if you had to hack the whole time
aaime: ok, meeting done?
jdeolive: ok... so i will reorganize jira, and send the road map update
jdeolive: 4) its a 3d world?
aaime: oh right
aaime: I just wanted to give a heads up
aaime: about the 2d+1 work I'm about to start
aaime: it will end up giving us 3D kml output from postgis data sources
aaime: but it won't cover other datastores or gml for the moment
aaime: thought I hope to add that later
aaime: for curious people, see the proposal on the geotools mailing list
aaime: (most of the work wil be done there, the kml producer should not need deep changes)
aaime: that's it